Pope Benedict XVI, Theologian of Joy: An Interview with Monsignor Joseph
Murphy | IgnatiusInsight.com
Pope Benedict XVI, Theologian of Joy: An Interview with Monsignor Joseph Murphy, author of
Christ Our Joy: The
Theological Vision of Pope Benedict XVI | Carl E. Olson
http://www.ignatiusinsight.com/features2008/mjmurphy_interview_jun08.asp
Monsignor Joseph Murphy, a
native of Ireland, received his S.T.L. degree from the Pontifical Gregorian
University, Rome. He has taught in colleges and seminaries, written articles
for several publications, and is currently an official of the Secretariat of
State at the Vatican. Carl E. Olson, editor of Ignatius Insight, recently
interviewed Monsignor Murphy about his recently published book, Christ Our Joy:
The Theological Vision of Pope Benedict XVI (Ignatius Press, 2008). An excerpt from the Introduction
to Monsignor Murphy's book can be read here.
Ignatius Insight: What was the genesis of your book? What do you hope readers will learn and better
appreciate about the theological work of Pope Benedict XVI?
Monsignor Murphy: Joseph Ratzinger's writings have fascinated me for a
long time. As a seminarian, I became familiar with such works as The
Ratzinger Report, Introduction to
Christianity, To Look on Christ, Ministers of Your Joy, and Eschatology: Death and Eternal Life. From that time, I was impressed by the
extraordinary clarity and depth of Ratzinger's thought, and his ability to
diagnose the problems of the current situation, engage in dialogue with contemporary
ideas, and offer a way forward, drawing on the perennial riches of the
Christian tradition.
The book came about in this
way. When Joseph Ratzinger was elected Pope I was immediately struck by the
content of his first homilies, which offered a thought-provoking and inspiring
presentation of the Christian message. In particular, I was intrigued by his
emphasis on joy and decided to take a closer look at his writings to get a
better understanding of what he meant by it. I initially found what I was
looking for in an article entitled "Faith as Trust and Joy—Evangelium",
which was his contribution to Bernhard HŠring's Festschrift, published in 1977. The article itself was later
reprinted in Principles of Catholic
Theology (Ignatius Press, 1987). Subsequently,
on reading other texts, I noticed that joy is very much present in throughout
Ratzinger's work and that it arises in connection with all the key themes of
the Christian faith. It seemed to me that this was exactly the kind of message
that people today, with all their questions and problems, needed to hear again.
Also this way of presenting the Christian message could serve to overcome the
indifference or discouragement which afflict many members of the Church, and
rekindle their enthusiasm and love for the faith.
I hope that the readers of Christ
Our Joy will enjoy it as much as I
did writing it! I tried to show that even though Pope Benedict, because of his
other heavy commitments, never had the opportunity to develop a systematic
presentation of the Christian faith—the closest he comes to it is in
Introduction
to Christianity—there is
something like a complete vision of Christianity in his various writings, that
joy is central to that vision, and that this manner of presenting the Christian
message is particularly appropriate in today's circumstances.
Ignatius Insight: For many people, especially those who know little
about Benedict XVI except what they have read or heard via the secular media,
associating "joy" with the Holy Father might be surprising, even strange. What
would you say to those who might be puzzled by this association? How is joy a
part of Benedict's theological vision?
Monsignor Murphy: While certainly criticisms could be made of some
media presentations of the Pope, which are often little more than caricatures,
it should also be pointed out that it is thanks to the media and, in
particular, to television, newspapers and news magazines that many people have
come know the Holy Father better, particularly in such high profile events as
the funeral of Pope John Paul II, the inaugural Mass of the Pontificate and
Pope Benedict's recent pastoral visit to the United States.
I can well imagine that for
people who have become used to a certain one-sided image of the former Prefect
of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, associating the word "joy"
with the Pope might well appear somewhat surprising. However, I would simply
invite them to listen to what he has to say and read some of his writings. They
will find that his thought is actually very hope-filled, encouraging and
inspiring.
Rather than saying that joy
is part of Pope Benedict's theological vision, I would say that joy
characterizes both his thought and, more generally, Christian life itself,
which after all is a life in the Holy Spirit, in the "Spirit of eternal joy",
as the Pope calls him. Authentic joy is bound up with the Christian faith in
its entirety and it flows from living that faith to the full. In the article I
mentioned above, the Pope shows how joy presupposes inner harmony and serenity,
and these in turn arise from the experience of being loved with a love that is
true and unfailing. Only God, who reveals himself in Jesus Christ, can provide
this true and unfailing love. As Ratzinger's friend, the German philosopher
Josef Pieper, puts it, only God can truly say to us: "Yes, it is good that you
are, that you exist".
Ignatius Insight: What are some aspects of joy found in Benedict's
work that might be new or surprising to readers? What are some other essential
qualities of Benedict's thought that are interrelated with joy?
Monsignor Murphy: Joy is of course a central Biblical theme, and so
Christianity and joy must be closely associated. For example, in the intimacy
of the Last Supper, Christ says to his disciples: "These things I have spoken
to you, that my joy may be in you, and that your joy may be full" (Jn 15:11).
Christianity is not about imposing heavy burdens on people, nor is it an
oppressive system of do's and don'ts. Rather, it is the path to freedom and to
true joy. Hence, the Holy Father's emphasis on joy is simply in keeping with
his desire to communicate what is essential to Christianity, what it is really
all about.
In this regard, there are
some aspects of Pope Benedict's thought that readers may find new or at least
thought-provoking. For example, many people, when they hear about the Church,
automatically think of her institutional aspects, structures and personnel.
However, the Pope places the emphasis elsewhere; for him, the Church is, among
other things, what I referred to in the book as the servant, guardian and
teacher of joy. He alludes to this idea, for example, in Introduction to
Christianity, where he says: "Only
someone who has experienced how, regardless of changes in her ministers and
forms, the Church raises men up, gives them a home and a hope, a home that is
hope—the path to eternal life—only someone who has experienced this
knows what the Church is, both in days gone by and now." (2nd ed., Ignatius Press, 2004, p. 344).
The Pope often cites French
Catholic authors in his writings and there are similar ideas about the Church
in Georges Bernanos's great novel, The Diary of a Country Priest, which, incidentally, teaches us a lot about the
nature of Christian joy, despite the novel's initially somewhat somber
appearance. In one well-known passage, for example, the curŽ de Torcy describes
the true nature of the Church and tells his younger colleague, the curŽ
d'Ambricourt: "Joy is in the gift of the Church, whatever joy is possible for
this sad world to share" (New York: Carroll and Graf, 2002, p. 20).
An important question, which
the Pope addresses in his writings, is whether there can be joy in the face of
suffering and death. A merely superficial joy cannot withstand these difficult
realities, which bring us face to face with the fragility of our lives and the
question of ultimate meaning. However, Christian joy is something much more
profound. It springs from knowing that the God of love is close to us in all
the circumstances of our lives and, as the saints teach us, it is this that
enables us to face illness, suffering and death with serenity, confidence and
hope. Ultimately, it is Christ's victory over sin and death that makes it
possible for joy and suffering to co-exist.
Ignatius Insight: Benedict has often been portrayed as
"triumphalistic" and "rigid", and yet isn't the case that his life's work has
been marked by a deep and serious dialogue with other religions and belief
systems? What stands out to you the most about Benedict's writings about
secularism, modernity and skepticism?
Monsignor Murphy: Anyone who has ever met or read Pope Benedict would
see just how wide of the mark it is to describe him as "triumphalistic" or
"rigid". His theology is marked by a willingness to engage in dialogue, and he
is very well informed about the questions posed by contemporary culture and
theological debate. In this regard, those who wish to get a better idea of what
the Pope is really like would do well to read the first chapter of Fr. Vincent
Twomey's recent book Pope Benedict XVI: The
Conscience of Our Age (Ignatius Press, 2007), where Twomey,
who wrote his doctorate under Professor Ratzinger's direction, gives us an
interesting description of his former teacher's method of conducting seminars,
which were characterized by open debate and respect for the views of others.
The Pope has discussed other
religions and belief systems on various occasions, especially in recent years
in such works as Many Religions—One
Covenant (Ignatius Press, 1999) and Truth
and Tolerance (Ignatius Press, 2004). In his writings on these subjects, as well as on
secularism, modernity and skepticism, what emerges very clearly is the emphasis
on the primacy of truth, without which joy is simply not possible. It is
interesting that in the encyclical Deus Caritas
Est, he stresses that by fidelity to God and to his
revealed law, man "comes to experience himself as loved by God and discovers
joy in truth and in righteousness—a joy in God which becomes his
essential happiness" (no. 9). Man is made for the truth and cannot avoid posing
the ultimate questions about meaning, about life and death, about his origins
and destiny. In all cultures and religions, we find attempts to answer these
questions, and there is no doubt in Ratzinger's mind that Christianity can
engage in fruitful dialogue with the world religions on the basis of this
common quest for answers and also on the basis of the knowledge about human
existence and morality which transcends national, cultural and religious
boundaries.
Ratzinger stresses that
modern skepticism and relativism, by ignoring the truth-claims of religion and
the fundamental human insights about the deeper questions of life, pose a grave
danger for man since they risk leading him into a vacuum devoid of meaning,
which would prove fatal. Truth is necessary to lead us out of alienation, but
if there is no possibility of knowing the truth, man is left without meaning
and direction. However, man has an unquenchable thirst for truth, love and
meaning; he needs them in order to live. In this context, Christianity
reassures us not only that truth and meaning exist but that these are in fact
personal and are ultimately to be identified with the God who is love.
Ratzinger puts it very strikingly in Introduction to Christianity: "Christian faith lives on the discovery that not
only is there such a thing as objective meaning but that this meaning knows me
and loves me, that I can entrust myself to it like the child who know that
everything he may be wondering about is safe in the 'you' of his mother." (p.
80).
Ignatius Insight: Benedict XVI and John Paul II are continually
compared to one another—sometimes fairly (and understandably), sometimes
not. What key similarities and differences do you see in their theological
works?
Monsignor Murphy: It is clear that Benedict XVI and John Paul II are
very different as to temperament, spirituality, background and theological
approach. However, they are also very complementary. Pope John Paul was of
course more of a philosopher, initially trained in the Aristotelian and Thomist
traditions, which left a lasting mark on his thinking. His interest in the
human person and in the reality of human love, sexuality and marriage led him
to integrate his early philosophical education with the more personalistic
insights of phenomenology, thus producing a very interesting and original
synthesis of his own, the fruits of which we find in
Love and Responsibility,
The Acting Person and Theology of the Body. His love for the theatre and his indebtedness to
the Carmelite spiritual tradition also contributed to the formation of this
great pastor, thinker and man of prayer. Pope John Paul has left a large corpus
of writings which will require considerable time to absorb. Among them his
teaching on ethical questions, social doctrine and anthropology (the theology
of the body) undoubtedly holds a special place and has yet to be fully
integrated into the life of the Church and her members.
Pope Benedict's background
is rather different. His spirituality is deeply influenced by the liturgical
movement, as is clear from his writings on liturgy and his manner of
celebrating the Eucharist. His theology has a strong Biblical and Patristic
note. It owes much to the Fathers of the Church, especially St. Augustine, and
to medieval authors like St. Bonaventure. Even though Pope Benedict's thought
is less explicitly philosophical than that of Pope John Paul, it does pay close
attention to the questions raised by the Enlightenment and by the thinkers who
shaped modern culture. Pope Benedict is also a remarkably clear teacher, with a
gift for expressing profound ideas in a very simple way, and so it is no wonder
that the many people who attend his Angelus and General Audience talks pay
close attention to what he has to say. While he certainly has an interest in
moral and social issues, Pope Benedict, in keeping with his own academic
background in the area of fundamental and dogmatic theology, has tended to
devote more attention to the central articles of the faith, to the dialogue
between faith and reason, and to the liturgy, as is clear from his encyclicals
on love and on hope, and his very beautiful work on Christ,
Jesus of
Nazareth.
In short, the teachings of
both Popes, in their complementarity, provide us with an extraordinarily
profound understanding of the riches of the Christian faith.
Ignatius Insight: In Christ Our Joy you emphasize how Joseph Ratzinger, in his
Christological writings, focuses on both the Incarnation and the Cross. Why is
this significant and how does it relate to other aspects of his work,
especially soteriology and ecclesiology?
Monsignor Murphy: In the Christological section of Introduction to
Christianity, Ratzinger mentions
that, broadly speaking, there have been two major approaches to the mystery of
Christ, one which concentrates on the mystery of the Incarnation and the other
on the Cross. An approach based on the Incarnation tends to focus on the being
of Christ, who is both God and man. The interlocking of God and man, so to
speak, appears as the truly decisive factor. This approach is in keeping with
the old Patristic adage "what is not assumed is not saved", which proved
immensely helpful in the formulation of the early Christological dogmas. The
risk of a unilateral Incarnation-based approach to the mystery of the
redemption is to produce a static, optimistic view of man, in which sin plays
at most a secondary role.
The other major approach,
stressed by St. Paul and in later times by the Reformers, is based on the
Cross, and stresses the victory of Christ over sin and death. The risk here is
to produce an anti-world interpretation, which sees Christianity as a
"constantly appearing breach in the self-confidence and self-assurance of man
and of his institutions, including the Church" (Introduction to Christianity, p. 230).
An adequate Christology, and
consequently an adequate soteriology and ecclesiology, must somehow embrace
both approaches, without reducing them to a facile synthesis. It must pay due
attention to the unity of Christ and his saving work. The "being" of Christ,
which is the focus of the Incarnation-based approach, is also "doing". This
means that it is intrinsically connected with his saving activity, which is the
focus of the approach based on the Cross. Christ's being is in reality "actualitas"; it is a stepping beyond oneself, an exodus. His
being is not a static resting in himself but the act of being sent out, of
being son, of serving. In short, his "being" is "doing" and his "doing" is
"being".
This interesting way of
connecting the Incarnation and the Cross is intimately bound up with
Ratzinger's notion of person, which stresses the importance of relatedness: the
person is "from" someone (ultimately, God), and "for" others. The more a person
abandons himself "for" the other, especially for the other who is God, and the
more he moves away from himself towards the other, the more he comes to himself
and fulfils himself. Jesus Christ, in giving himself, "is the one who has moved
right out beyond himself and, thus,
the man who has come completely to himself" (Introduction to Christianity, p. 235).
All of this has consequences
for our understanding of the Church and Christian life. The piercing of
Christ's side shows that his existence is now completely open: "now he is
entirely 'for'; now he is truly no longer a single individual but 'Adam', from
whose side Eve, a new mankind, is formed" (Introduction to Christianity, p. 241). The blood and water which flow from Christ's
side point to the basic Christian sacraments of baptism and Eucharist, and thus
to the Church, which is the new community of men and women. To live as a new
creation, to be fully part of the new community, means to live like Christ, in
a community of relationships, in a spirit of giving oneself for the other. All
of this is made possible by Christ's saving work, which we receive into our own
lives through the sacraments.
Ignatius Insight: In writing about the Blessed Mother, Ratzinger
has often focused on her being the Daughter of Zion. What is the importance of
that and how does it relate to the theme of joy?
Monsignor Murphy: In 1977 Joseph Ratzinger published a short but
profound book on Mariology, Daughter Zion (Ignatius Press: San Francisco, 1983), in which he identifies the
Daughter of Zion theme as one of five Old Testament strands of thought which
were taken over by the New Testament and by the later Christian tradition,
especially by the liturgy, in order to understand better the person of the
Virgin Mary and her role in the history of salvation. The other strands are (1)
the figure of Eve; (2) the barren women who eventually bear a child: Sarah,
Rachel, Hannah; (3) the great salvific figures of Esther and Judith; and (4)
personified Wisdom.
For Ratzinger, the Daughter
of Zion has particular significance. In Old Testament thought, this figure
comes to represent Jerusalem and indeed Israel as a whole. Israel, the chosen
people, enjoys a covenant relationship with God, which is based on God's love,
mercy and grace. The covenant itself is seen more in terms of a marital
relationship than as a political or legal arrangement. In this context,
especially in the prophetic writings, Israel is often described in feminine
terms as woman, virgin, beloved, wife and mother. In the New Testament, Mary is
seen as the true Daughter of Zion, in whom God takes up his dwelling, so much
so that she becomes the Mother of God, the Theotokos.
The connection with joy is
already clear in the prophets Zechariah and Zephaniah, who urge the people, the
Daughter of Zion, to rejoice because God is victorious and present in the midst
of Israel. Israel can rejoice because her hope is sure, since it is solidly
founded in God's saving work, his consoling presence and his promises. However,
in Old Testament times, the promises await fulfillment.
The hope of Israel is
realized in the Virgin Mary, who is to be the mother of the long-awaited
Savior, and it is significant that when the angel Gabriel addresses her, he
does so in a manner which recalls the Daughter of Zion prophecies: "Rejoice!"
This is why Pope Benedict constantly emphasizes that Christianity, which really
begins with the angel's words to Mary, is an invitation to joy. Mary is at the
same time the Daughter of Zion and the true Israel, in whom the old and new
covenants, Israel and the Church are inseparably one. Mary teaches us what the
Church is to be, namely, God's dwelling place. She also teaches us to place our
trust in God in an attitude of complete openness and self-giving. In doing so,
she indicates where we will find true joy.
From all of this, we can
understand the place of Marian devotion in Christian life. As Joseph Ratzinger
puts it: "Marian devotion is the rapture of joy over the true, indestructible
Israel; it is a blissful entering into the joy of the Magnificat and thereby it
is the praise of him to whom the daughter Zion owes her whole self and whom she
bears, the true, incorruptible, indestructible Ark of the Covenant." (Daughter
Zion, p. 82).
Ignatius Insight: You often refer to Introduction to
Christianity, widely
considered an essential work by Joseph Ratzinger. What are some other works by
Ratzinger/Benedict that you think are at the core of his large body of
theological work?
Monsignor Murphy: In many ways, Introduction to Christianity is the closest Joseph Ratzinger came to producing a
theological synthesis, even though it is incomplete and there are significant
developments in later writings. It has to be remembered that Introduction to
Christianity was first published
forty years ago (in 1968), yet it remains an extraordinarily fresh work and a
classic of modern Catholic theology. Introduction deals with the question of faith and belief in the
modern world, before commenting in an original way on the contents of the
Apostles' Creed. As my book aims to present Ratzinger's approach to the main
elements of Christian belief, it is only natural that I quote and refer to it
quite frequently.
It is a pity that
Ratzinger's doctoral thesis, People and House of God in St. Augustine's
Doctrine of the Church, has never
been translated into English. It is important for a better understanding of the
genesis of Ratzinger's thought as contains the basic insights on the Church in
her inner nature and in her relationship to the state that he develops in his
later writings. Ratzinger's Habilitationsschrift, The Theology of History in St. Bonaventure, is important for his thinking about salvation
history and about the distinction between eschatology and utopia.
Regarding Ratzinger's
strictly theological work, one would also have to mention Eschatology: Death
and Eternal Life, which is intended
as a manual for students of theology, although it is quite original in its
presentation. As to other areas of theology, much of his thought is developed
in a series of articles published in various journals or collections. These
were often republished in books such as his important volume on fundamental
theology, Principles of Catholic Theology,
his recently republished meditations on the Trinity, The God of
Jesus Christ, his more recent works
on ecclesiology among which I would count Church,
Ecumenism and Politics, and Called to
Communion, his collection of articles and meditations on the
Eucharist, God is Near Us, and his
volume of articles on religious pluralism, relativism and faith, Truth and
Tolerance. Regarding Christology,
apart from the relevant chapters of Introduction to Christianity, one would have to mention his interesting attempt
at developing a spiritual Christology, Behold the
Pierced One, and, above all, his most recent book, Jesus of
Nazareth. His liturgical writings
are also very significant and already proving quite influential. In this
regard, his liturgical trilogy must be mentioned: The
Feast of Faith, A New Song for the Lord and, above all, The
Spirit of the Liturgy.
For readers unfamiliar with
the Pope's thought, an easier introductory approach could begin with his short
autobiography Milestones: Memoirs 1927-1977, which explains the context for much of his earlier
work, and his three book-length interviews, The
Ratzinger Report, Salt of the Earth
and God and the World.
Ignatius Insight: What do you think is the place of Joseph
Ratzinger in 20th century theology? What are some aspects of his
work that will likely to have a significant influence on theological studies
and writing in the years to come?
Monsignor Murphy: It is very difficult to prognosticate how Joseph
Ratzinger will be seen in the history of 20th century theology. Now
that he is Pope, many who were unfamiliar with his work previously will want to
know more about his thinking. His theology is less speculative than that of
Karl Rahner or Bernard Lonergan, and, largely because of his other commitments,
he did not produce a monumental synthesis like that of Hans Urs von Balthasar.
His thought has a lot in common with that of ressourcement theologians, like Henri de Lubac, who did much to
recover the rich heritage of the Fathers and prompt a greater appreciation of
the complexity, subtlety and variety of medieval thought beyond the
simplifications of a large part of the manual tradition. With regard to
medieval thinkers, it is true that Joseph Ratzinger is more influenced by
Augustinianism and by its continuation in the Franciscan tradition found in St
Bonaventure than by the thought of St. Thomas Aquinas, whereas de Lubac devotes
more attention to the latter. Also Ratzinger's thought has a very strong
Scriptural component, as can be seen in Introduction to Christianity and even more so in Jesus of Nazareth.
I am of the view that Pope
Benedict's approach to doing theology is likely to have a strong influence. In
the introduction to Christ Our Joy,
I outlined some of the characteristics of his theology, mentioning among other
things that it is very Scriptural, profoundly rooted in tradition, especially
in the Fathers, and is also both pastoral and spiritual. While the necessary
distinctions must be made between Pope Benedict's personal theology and his
Magisterium, we do find something of his theological approach in his official
teaching. At present, following a number of General Audience talks on the
Apostles and the early Church, recently published by Ignatius Press [Jesus, The Apostles,
and the Early Church], the Pope
is engaged in a very interesting series on the Fathers of the Church, in which
he explains the key aspects of their thought and gives some indication of their
relevance to contemporary debates. I believe this is likely to encourage
theology students to delve into the riches of the Patristic writings and this
is sure to benefit both theological reflection and preaching in the future. As
a result, we can hope for a more reflective and spiritual style of theological
writing, which draws on Scripture and tradition, while being sensitive to the
questionings of our contemporaries.
Related IgnatiusInsight.com Articles:
• Biography of Joseph Ratzinger/Pope Benedict XVI
• All books by or about Joseph Ratzinger/Pope Benedict XVI
• Excerpts from books by Joseph Ratzinger/Pope Benedict XVI
• Articles about Joseph Ratzinger/Pope Benedict XVI
• Benedict XVI's Theological Vision: An
Introduction | Monsignor Joseph Murphy
• The Theological Genius of Joseph Ratzinger | An Interview with
Fr. D. Vincent Twomey, S.V.D.
• The Courage To Be Imperfect | The Introduction to Pope Benedict
XVI: The Conscience of Our Age (A Theological Portrait) | D. Vincent Twomey, S.V.D.
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